[3.16][HC][ON BREAK] Caustic Arrow Raider, DoT Focused | Tanky | 6k+ Health | All Content | In-depth

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aefoa 님이 작성:

I can't see how does Raider's ascendancy benefit to chaos DoT?

It doesn't.

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aefoa 님이 작성:

Or it's just a QoL+Defense parameteres there?

Yes. This is primarily a HC build, where not dying is paramount.

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aefoa 님이 작성:

And if so, wouldn't it make Raider's CA tooltip dps ~1.5mil which is super low for end game?

Debatable. Depends how the maiden fight is. For example my friend played archmage arch hiero in Heist and his POB dps was good, but his Sirus experience was 80% running around and 20% actually dpsing. Some other league he played dom blow Guardian and same story, endless chasing Sirus cuz melee.

Builds that can facetank bosses for 100% uptime are fairly expensive and not SSF friendly, while this one is designed to be.

You can definitely go into something like Cremation necro that I heard is a good SSFHC boss killer, however I heard mapping is iffy as cremation so you might have to be swapping between cremation for bosses and something like detonate dead / volatile dead for mapping. And personally I don't like gem swap builds (read: your 6-link is in chest not in weapon and you have to swap the item or gems back and forth).

Have you guys considered taking No Witnesses (Elusive buff)?

Its 4 points needed, but you can get them from removing mana regen nodes (i just tested it in standard and i can sustain CA nicely without them - i have 51% mana regen on gear; POB build has 40% crafted)

Its only 10% chance after kill, so not viable for bosses, but for map clear its basically always up. I think ill be taking it at least until i can get last 10-15% points of Dodge somewhere else. Movement speed is also nice.

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sajm0n 님이 작성:

Have you guys considered taking No Witnesses (Elusive buff)?

Was discussed several times, it's good for levelling but once you get to the point you have plenty of movement speed and close to dodge cap without elusive, 4 points spent is too much on something you only get a partial benefit from. With cluster jewels existing, there's always something better to spend your points on.

Im only talking mainly before Jewels (which takes time to get there in SSF) and because mana regen is useless if you dont really need it. id rather have something even remotely useful than that (i know those nodes have also flask duration etc, but it doesnt seem that good to me).

Another option i see is to get to Hired Killer node maybe.

(yes i hate getting mana regen on skill tree)

Here's something I've always wondered about: You and a friend are both playing a CA build. You both shoot a boss which makes overlapping pools of caustic goo. Do the pools from two different players stack?

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sajm0n 님이 작성:

Im only talking mainly before Jewels (which takes time to get there in SSF)

Personally I usually spec no witness early on and respec later when I need the points. You can always do that, 4 extra regrets shouldn't be that much of a problem to find.

Can't say about the mana regen because I tend to not run clarity unlike the suggested setup so for me mana regen is good because I could maybe fit another aura instead of clarity.

The flask duration is actually not that bad, saves you button presses during mapping.

But well - it's your character, tweak it to your own liking.

I wish we could thread of hope no witness but GGG made it deliberately outside of any range.

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Viktranka 님이 작성:

Can't say about the mana regen because I tend to not run clarity unlike the suggested setup so for me mana regen is good because I could maybe fit another aura instead of clarity.

The flask duration is actually not that bad, saves you button presses during mapping.

Thats exactly what i was thinking as well. Remove clarity and get some other aura instead if possible (id love flesh and stone - Blind would stack with less accuracy aura from Ascendancy, right? altough we're getting over the Evade cap i guess, so maybe something else, Skitterbot? ;)
Flask duration i dont care about, because ill try to have it on a flasks, but its individual preference anyway ;)

Hey. I know that's a dumb question. 3.13 is it worth starting? Can I close everything for them?

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The_ProTein 님이 작성:

Hey. I know that's a dumb question. 3.13 is it worth starting? Can I close everything for them?

Caustic arrow = 0 changes.
Raider = got buffed.

So basically check the vids in the OP whether you like the playstyle, nothing got nerfed in this build.

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Viktranka 님이 작성:

Maybe time to revisit that CA Occultist I made back in the day... :/

That was just my opinion. I simply find pathfinder completly underwhelming.

Occultist outside of my knowledge. Never liked ES as a defensive mechanic so i have no clue how's survivability. Damage wise should be stronger than Trickster.

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xMustard 님이 작성:

yes and no. bleed/poison are great but league start terribly IMO because they require much more gear. they have much higher end game scaling then any others though.

I see this being brought up often, talking about bleed here since i know the topic. It's both underrated and overrated at the same time, depending on who you ask. My opinion is in the middle.

Bleed bow works fine on relatively budget gear, but most builds go to left side and require Lioneye's Fall in order to deal any real damage. Then there's also a big issue with dexterity for bow, intelligence for Malevolence, probably survivability too until you have good armour and endurance charge generation. If you go to right side like i do, use Pride instead of Malevolence it's smooth sailing all the way to red maps if you spend little bit of money for high phys bow, 6-link armour and annoint amulet. I fully cleared whole end game (A7 Sirus i think? 3.9 patch) with just that and Ryslatha's Coil, no elder bleed bow.

I don't play many builds in general so i didn't experience how ignite performs personally. I don't doubt ignite is better, i know couple of people in my guild are starting with one.

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SBOG4215 님이 작성:

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I'm keen to try this build in HC trade league, but a bit concerned about the survivability and single target damage for high tier bosses and the maven fight. Can anyone reassure me?

Ps CA might be > ED for single target damage, but they also use blight, and can raider really compete with the survivability of an ES trickster?

Thanks in advance!

You really shouldn't be worried about survivability in a build which focuses on defences and safe playstyle. Some people have problems with evasion playstyle, but even then you should faceroll almost all content.

CA has been bad for single target since forever. It's limited by a skill mechanics, not build's. You can get more damage if you only want to, but you will give up something in return.

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Viktranka 님이 작성:

When it comes to HC, let's wait what the author says, but he did reach 100 in a HC trade league (I reckon in harvest?) so it's possible.

That was Harvest indeed, but i didn't even use harvest crafted gear until level 98 and i think it was only amulet + quiver.

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luck061482 님이 작성:

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Hi, Sir:

Thanks for the guide!

Currently considering between CA & TR as 3.13 starter,

What's your opinion on CA Raider vs TR PF or TR Trickster?

This is a question no build creator likes to answer. Ask generic question, get generic answer:

You like being nearly immortal and low/mediocre damage? Go Raider, and if CA is not good enough damage you can make a TR setup instead based on my build (which is optimized for CA mind you).

If you like big damage and no defense besides flasks, you go TR Pathfinder.

If you're like both defence and damage, you go Trickster.


Any specific details of both TR builds you mentioned and which one is better when min-maxed? It's better to ask creators of their respective guides.

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NoxKerena 님이 작성:

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When i Checked pob, i think the shocking conflux is multiplicative damage and not additive. I also noticed a substantial damage increase during the conflux windows when i had shocking active.

Also I think I heard there might be an item to make chaos damage also apply ignite, do you think this will also increase in our damage output?

I did change up your build a bit to add more auras in it. I don't know how to link my character, but mind telling me what you think of my heist league character?

Because your damage can shock doesn't mean build has what it takes to even apply it. Most CA builds completely ignore hit damage, so even if it's multiplicative (i still doubt that, PoB is not always correct) it will barely make a difference - because you won't be able to apply more than 5% minimum through crit.

That new ring makes ignite deal chaos damage instead of fire damage (IIRC). CA has no use for it.

From experience i know all "improvements" are usually terrible. In your case you gave up incredible amount of life to fit more auras that aren't really worth lost 1/3rd or more of your hp. Blind from Flesh and Stone is mostly pointless since Raider hits evade chance cap anyway, 11% less damage doesn't even come close to what you gained. I'm honestly amazed you manged to get to level 95 with barely 3,6k life (i usually have almost double that amount at 95+ levels). Only shows how good Raider is defensively.

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aefoa 님이 작성:

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I've played Caustic arrow Pathfinder in Harvest (tooltip 2mil dps with BiS Harvest crafted gear) and Caustic arrow Trickster in Heist (tooltip ~2mil dps with average gear). Both ascendacies provided inseases of chaos DoT damage and still it was a pain in the ass to kill Sirus 8, took very long time.

I can't see how does Raider's ascendancy benefit to chaos DoT? Or it's just a QoL+Defense parameteres there? And if so, wouldn't it make Raider's CA tooltip dps ~1.5mil which is super low for end game?

I state right at the beginning - it's all defence, QoL and speed. No damage. Sirus will take long time to kill, that's true (you can see it in the video), but at least you can faceroll it with right gear (75% spell dodge).

Are you sure you're not mistaking "tooltip" for full PoB dps against Shaper? Because i don't know how you could reach 2 million without going glass cannon on average gear. You say 2 million tooltip... IIRC the highest tooltip dmg i've reached in PoB (harvest gear ofc) is ~1,35 million and i had all efficient damage increases. Pathfinder gives roughly ~20% more damage compared to Raider, so you would've had 1,6 million. Getting extra 25% more from that position is no easy task.

Check videos, if you don't like low damage then i guess this isn't a build for you.

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next_generati0n 님이 작성:

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I'm also concerned about this, I really would like to try this build but a little concerned that the lack of single target will take away from the enjoyment during 10 way boss fights.

Sure, some extra mobility and survivabilty can make up for it but when your friends have completed an extra map while you're still waiting for the bosses to die would sting a bit.

I don't mind spending a lot into the end game crafting decent gear but worried that this will make for a rough league start before this gets going.

Just check videos and see if you think damage is acceptable. Non-harvest videos showcase build with close to no budget. I acquire similar gear every league in SSF.

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sajm0n 님이 작성:

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Have you guys considered taking No Witnesses (Elusive buff)?

Its 4 points needed, but you can get them from removing mana regen nodes (i just tested it in standard and i can sustain CA nicely without them - i have 51% mana regen on gear; POB build has 40% crafted)

Its only 10% chance after kill, so not viable for bosses, but for map clear its basically always up. I think ill be taking it at least until i can get last 10-15% points of Dodge somewhere else. Movement speed is also nice.

I hate elusive with passion. On kill activation, you only really care about spell dodge, it's not always at full potential and without extra effect it's just awful (i tried elusive on crit once). No thanks, i'll pass.

Primal Spirit and Druidic Route aren't necessary, but i can absolutely assure you you'll miss them if you don't take them. Druidic Route especially. If you still refuse, then there's better ways to spend your passives - like normal jewels or clusters.

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sajm0n 님이 작성:

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Im only talking mainly before Jewels (which takes time to get there in SSF) and because mana regen is useless if you dont really need it. id rather have something even remotely useful than that (i know those nodes have also flask duration etc, but it doesnt seem that good to me).

Another option i see is to get to Hired Killer node maybe.

(yes i hate getting mana regen on skill tree)

It's not just about mana. Primal Spirit gives good chunk of stats you'll need later on top of mana sustain. Druidic Route is primarly used for flask sustain - it's worth 2 suffixes on a belt AND still gives mana. Both of them are efficient, so they're being taken.

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Mechas 님이 작성:

Here's something I've always wondered about: You and a friend are both playing a CA build. You both shoot a boss which makes overlapping pools of caustic goo. Do the pools from two different players stack?

It's been ages since the last time i partied with another CA character. From my knowledge the degen doesn't stack. In this situation i would adjust one character to use TR instead.

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The_ProTein 님이 작성:

Hey. I know that's a dumb question. 3.13 is it worth starting? Can I close everything for them?

I sense a language barrier here but i'll try to answer anyway.

I use this build every league so yes, i think it's worth starting the league with it. Build is fully updated now.