[3.11] LL Vortex Occultist (endgame/deep delve optimized)

Heyo, my friend is quite interested in this build but he has one question.

He checked Poe.ninja and many Vortex Occultists used Thread of Hope to get glancing blows and

Another question is how does one regenerate energy shield without zealot's oath?

Is there some sort of Energy shield leech I'm not seeing?

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swaes 님이 작성:

Heyo, my friend is quite interested in this build but he has one question.

He checked Poe.ninja and many Vortex Occultists used Thread of Hope to get glancing blows and

Another question is how does one regenerate energy shield without zealot's oath?

Is there some sort of Energy shield leech I'm not seeing?

People who get Glancing Blows in this build after the change need to travel all the way to the very left of the templar area and only allocate 2 nodes using thread of hope. Glancing Blows is good, but I don't think it's that good to justify such inefficient point spending.

Speaking of sustain, this build doesn't rely on ES regen at all. Two powerful mechanics used are ES recharge(7-9k ES per second with less than a second of not taking damage to start recharging) and gaining 5%ES on block using rare shield.

I roughly went through your PoB and the comments to see what the build actually is because from my point of view it's not really deep delve optimized, well it depends your definition of "deep", if you think 500 is deep then yeah this setup works, but if your deep is 1k, it doesn't work.

I can guarantee you it starts to have troubles near 700, when wetas dot damage starts to get insane, you can't do anything against that because you don't have any regen to counter that, it takes about 3-5 seconds to kill you when you're standing on the dot degen. You would REALLY want to have purity of ice for that.

Second problem would be you're taking full physical damage, though you have some armour, but since the monster hits gets harder your armour would be naturally dropping in value. This can be fixed by having a basalt flask, but it only gives you 15% mitigation, so it can't survive in the longer run either. You really want to have phys convert to cold while affected by purity of ice watchers for those mitigation. You will have trouble on Haunted Remains later on because they are phys spell monsters.

Third problem would be zombie degen, it doesn't matter if you have corpse explosion or not, they just throw degen on death. In about 900 depth and having 60 chaos res, it's an instant death, takes about 1 second for your es to drain from about 10k to 0. Solution is to have more chaos res

Some other small things that you want is flesh and stone, it's pretty much a survivability boost for all builds. Viligant Strike with ancestral call at your second slot so you can proc fortify immediately with weapon swap. You want to drop Malevolence for these auras as damage doesn't really matter because you deal no damage when you're dead. Changes on flask, take Taste of Hate and Basalt flask for phys mitigation.

tl;dr 5% recover on block is really not enough, EHP is not the answer for delve, mitigation is. I could guarantee you'll get one tapped when you get hit by 2 weta explosion. Or any triple damage mods node.

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Remicaster1 님이 작성:

I roughly went through your PoB and the comments to see what the build actually is because from my point of view it's not really deep delve optimized, well it depends your definition of "deep", if you think 500 is deep then yeah this setup works, but if your deep is 1k, it doesn't work.

I can guarantee you it starts to have troubles near 700, when wetas dot damage starts to get insane, you can't do anything against that because you don't have any regen to counter that, it takes about 3-5 seconds to kill you when you're standing on the dot degen. You would REALLY want to have purity of ice for that.

Second problem would be you're taking full physical damage, though you have some armour, but since the monster hits gets harder your armour would be naturally dropping in value. This can be fixed by having a basalt flask, but it only gives you 15% mitigation, so it can't survive in the longer run either. You really want to have phys convert to cold while affected by purity of ice watchers for those mitigation. You will have trouble on Haunted Remains later on because they are phys spell monsters.

Third problem would be zombie degen, it doesn't matter if you have corpse explosion or not, they just throw degen on death. In about 900 depth and having 60 chaos res, it's an instant death, takes about 1 second for your es to drain from about 10k to 0. Solution is to have more chaos res

Some other small things that you want is flesh and stone, it's pretty much a survivability boost for all builds. Viligant Strike with ancestral call at your second slot so you can proc fortify immediately with weapon swap. You want to drop Malevolence for these auras as damage doesn't really matter because you deal no damage when you're dead. Changes on flask, take Taste of Hate and Basalt flask for phys mitigation.

tl;dr 5% recover on block is really not enough, EHP is not the answer for delve, mitigation is. I could guarantee you'll get one tapped when you get hit by 2 weta explosion. Or any triple damage mods node.

I appreciate your input, though some things need to be clarified. I never meant to say that the setup presented in POB is specifically ultimate solution for delve 1k+(or insert any number there). In fact, this is meant as a naturally tanky build, that CAN be taken far into stuff like delve, but the general skill/aura setup is still rather targeted towards a "normal" user which would come across the guide - so that the build does well also in mapping, uber elder bossing etc. I just assume that person whose purpose is actually to push delve tn the limits knows himself what particular dangers tend to appear and how to tackle them(like fortify through weapon swap, purities etc., like you mentioned).
One point I have to disagree with- if we are talking about "real deep delve", neither EHP nor mitigation is the answer- the answer is to put all damage where you can and try to kill everything on easy node paths before you get oneshot, maybe using some cheese with frost wall in the process(and still die lots of times just brute-forcing the way through).
Those builds are unplayable anywhere outside of the delve though and are only used by people who already know exactly what they aim to do anyways.

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Grozaa 님이 작성:

I appreciate your input, though some things need to be clarified. I never meant to say that the setup presented in POB is specifically ultimate solution for delve 1k+(or insert any number there). In fact, this is meant as a naturally tanky build, that CAN be taken far into stuff like delve, but the general skill/aura setup is still rather targeted towards a "normal" user which would come across the guide - so that the build does well also in mapping, uber elder bossing etc. I just assume that person whose purpose is actually to push delve tn the limits knows himself what particular dangers tend to appear and how to tackle them(like fortify through weapon swap, purities etc., like you mentioned).

Best is to clarify this out :>, because some people think 200 is deep, some people think 1k is deep so you need to let everyone know the definition of deep. I know it's hard to believe that even players that started during Metamorph could delve at 4-5k depth at Delirium, and it doesn't happen on just 1 person only, and how you'd view these kind of person then? New players? So you'd also need to clarify with the "normal players" you're referring and targetting.

On top of that, there are some "hidden mechanics" of delve with this build, for example :
Did you know you could force tp the living azurite in all Azurite 1-3 to the place you desire by simply briefly running out of their sight (i.e running into a wall then go back in), then clump them together in a corner so 1 vortex could finish all of them? (Try it yourself!)

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Grozaa 님이 작성:

One point I have to disagree with- if we are talking about "real deep delve", neither EHP nor mitigation is the answer- the answer is to put all damage where you can and try to kill everything on easy node paths before you get oneshot, maybe using some cheese with frost wall in the process(and still die lots of times just brute-forcing the way through).
Those builds are unplayable anywhere outside of the delve though and are only used by people who already know exactly what they aim to do anyways.

It seems like you got caught up with some misunderstandings.

The reason why EHP and Mitigations aren't the answer is simply one reason : they take way too much time to clear

It's not because you can't tank them anymore, it's just you're starting to spend 5 minutes on a node which is kinda ridiculous, while a zhp build could clear it under a minute.

On top of that, that's assuming you're playing perfectly, not getting hit, knowing when huge hits are coming and preparations against it, positioning and so on. But what if you made a mistake? Ded. It's basically the same as having 1 hp so people would be like "why not go 1 hp instead?"

They don't target easy nodes either, double speed nemesis bloodlines are difficult ones, but by just watching out a few mechanics such as Lightning Mirage, you could pretty much clear harder contents if you know what to expect, how to position during these type of nodes. It can be frustrating at some point, but it is how it is (like how sirus could offscreen people)

Concept of those builds isn't really "Kill them before they kill you", it's more about "Juke them before they kill you" type of style. This means it could also map but when it could literally get 1 shotted by a barrel it just feels unreliable. Same as these tank builds on delving, they can do it but not effective on 1k+.

Point is, "real deep delve" is how you view it, it doesn't has to be those 1hp builds, but rather they are more efficient generic tank builds on pushing. It's the same as saying "You can't reach lvl 100 with a non meta skill" if you think tank builds can't do deep delve, if you get what I meant by that.

*side note : Frost wall sucks in delve, it's only used on certain situations but it can't be relied on and there's no cheese with it, simply because a lot of monsters in delve penetrate frost walls*

Hey,

Playing this build and just hit mid 50's. I did not realize how insanely invest heavy this build is. Getting 2 enlightens is going to be tough.

I did find a Tabula on my starter. Do you recommend that I use that over a chest with stats until I find a 6 link or should I just stick with a 4 link for now?

Also Temporal Chains vs. Enfeeble. Which should I use until I get an enliighten? I have Vaal Discipline as well.

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Yahsei 님이 작성:

Hey,

Playing this build and just hit mid 50's. I did not realize how insanely invest heavy this build is. Getting 2 enlightens is going to be tough.

I did find a Tabula on my starter. Do you recommend that I use that over a chest with stats until I find a 6 link or should I just stick with a 4 link for now?

Also Temporal Chains vs. Enfeeble. Which should I use until I get an enliighten? I have Vaal Discipline as well.

This is not a good starter build. Low-life characters require certain amount of investment before they are functional. Items like shavs and presence of chayula are staple and not cheap part of it, and rest of ES gear has to be crafted/bought too.
You can of course level as life-based vortex occultist until you can afford to convert into LL (and maybe even CI in between). Tabula is fine for that, but generally to make a good transition you need some knowledge of how to gear and path through the tree to make life-based temporary character work reasonably well, and then properly judge when you can afford to respec to LL version.
Don't use discipline until you go into ES-based, temporal chains is probably the best curse for now(or frostbite if you feel like you need damage).

i craft sceptre using shaper base and got controlled destruction mod lvl 16 (with spell dmg, +1 to cold gems and cold dmg of course, this is why i ask). Elemental overload will still have a decent uptime with this mod, or i need roll it?

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ikswokor 님이 작성:

i craft sceptre using shaper base and got controlled destruction mod lvl 16 (with spell dmg, +1 to cold gems and cold dmg of course, this is why i ask). Elemental overload will still have a decent uptime with this mod, or i need roll it?

It might be problematic since this build has no investment in spell crit, so reduced crit from controlled destruction might mean you will not be able to crit with those skills at all to proc EO.

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Yahsei 님이 작성:

Hey,

Playing this build and just hit mid 50's. I did not realize how insanely invest heavy this build is. Getting 2 enlightens is going to be tough.

I did find a Tabula on my starter. Do you recommend that I use that over a chest with stats until I find a 6 link or should I just stick with a 4 link for now?

Also Temporal Chains vs. Enfeeble. Which should I use until I get an enliighten? I have Vaal Discipline as well.

hey I switched to vortex as soon as a could get the gem and with purely ssf gear I was steamrolling everything with one vortex up until maybe red maps. gear updates are very straightforward and the build does not require anything expensive at all. I'm not even LL (CI) and I have 1.2kk shaper dps and 9.5k es which is very very nice and I run only discipline and malevolence as auras with frostbite which I manually cast. No enlightens or shavs or anything.

https://pastebin.com/WwKJLXM3

my own take is the cluster jewels which I got like a few days ago. Before that you just path to Entropy. I also added Tempest Shield to my CWDT because it looks nice and Vaal RF for a more multiplier. Otherwise very straightforward