[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything
" On my setup I use: 1% increased Spell Damage per 16 Intelligence 100% increased total Recovery per second from Life, Mana, or Energy Shield Leech 15% increased Mana Reservation Efficiency of Skills 30% increased Defences while wielding a Staff 5% increased Attributes Gain 3% of Maximum Mana as Extra Maximum Energy Shield poe ninja link: https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/whiterockxx/White_Sentinel?i=2&search=item%3DThe-Whispering-Ice whiterockxx#6367 님이 2022. 7. 14. 오후 11:02:29에 마지막으로 편집
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" I would advice taking 30% max ES leech instead of 100% total recovery in Leech Mastery. Total recovery affect as multiplier to how much you leech. !00% increase effectively turns 1% leech to 2% and so on. But the maximum amount of ES you can regen per second is also capped. 10% by default. So no matter how high % your ES leech is, you cannot regen more than that. Hitting that cap is quite easy meaning increased total recovery is pretty much wasted stat. Max ES leech however increases that cap making it much more desirable. This is also reason why Ethereal Feast is so much better than Light Eater. LE gives 30% max ES leech, EF gives 70%. Ghost Reaver also doubles the max regen rate after you have added aöö the increased max ES rates. | |
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Hello Cjin!
I dont remember the real numbers, but i calculated the best way to my setup using pob. Just to put in perspective. Not real numbers, but something like that. I use the increase ES recovery rate Watcher's eye. My max leech per sec is about 8k/sec and my leech per sec is about 8.1k. i know that overshoot abit. but if i set 30% max leech... the 8k goes to 10.400 max per sec, but my real leech per sec goes to 6k per sec. So i'll be loosing 2k/sec. You can check this values using pob on calculations tab. I know that are some cases that 30%max could be better, but not in my case. This is the reason why i dont use ES on hit anymore... 8k ES/sec feels much better, and waaay cheaper! Maybe i missconcept something.. i dont know... but works fine for me... same as cold to fire setup... sounds weird, and probably most playes that tryed it failed on make it work because missed some key points and i understand... but work.. i made all challenges by myself including all ubers most of time deathless. But plz correct me if i made some mistake understanding how the leech works. so i could improve it on next league! |
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" These are numbers I get from PoB from your setup. (not counting Watcher's Eye as it messes up some stuff) ES:16639 ES Leech Cap: 5158 max ES leech/sec/instance: 16639*2%*2.8 = 931 Average Hit: 70k Damage leeched as ES: 1.3% ES leeched per hit: 2547 leech duration/instance = 2.73s This means each hit leeches 2547es at max rate of 931es/s for total of 2.73s You can stack multiple instances, but the max they all can regen ES is capped at 5158es/s. This means you would need to hit enemy 5.5 times every 2.73s (or little over 2 times/sec) to max out leeching. If you change the 80% and 100% total recovery to 15% and 30% Max total, you end up with ES Leech Cap: 6655 max ES leech/sec/instance: 16639*2% = 333 ES leeched per hit: 909 Now for max leech you would need to hit 20 times per 2.73s (or 7.3/s), or to get the same 5158es/s you need to hit 5.7times/s. You get some 24 shards/s. And each shard can hit multiple targets if there are more than one target. That said when you hit max ES, you loose the leech healing stored. So when you get hit again you can ramp up the regen faster when you have increased total recovery, and if boss moves a lot it may be hard to keep storms on the boss, so there is benefit of having increased total recovery in some cases. | |
" I don't get how or why Cold to Fire + Trinity would be better than Cold Penetration + Arcane Surge. Looking PoB CP+AS is 26% damage increase over CtF+Trinity. So ether I am wrong and Trinity does something me (and PoB) think it should not do, or you are wrong and it does not do something you think it does. So what exactly it does do? Cjin#1011 님이 2022. 7. 15. 오전 8:42:53에 마지막으로 편집
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" Ty for the info about leech, i'll tryout and improve it. The Cold to Fire idea, is more about play style, but i'll explain my points: First of all, i dont like to use arcane surge on Icestorm link for some reasons, but the main one is while using the boss staff, i you have to walk/evede some boss/invitations mechanichs and have to stop attack, you loose for a breef time and intensify too, so you have to stack both alerdy and take some time and i simply dont like it. Other reason is that arcane surge can be used on other link setup, and it will give you 16% more spell damage bonus, against 21% + 19% if linked to icestorm, its a 24% less damage, but doing my way you get a free link on Icestorm. Even if you set awknd cold pen + awknd added cold instead arcane surge, will give a better damage output, so i feel no reason to use arcane surge on Icestorm link. Just need to keep AS up all the time spamming vortex! That said, why Cold to Fire + Trinity instead Awakened Cold Pen + something else? Since all cold pen from jewels / Wise Oak / Blanketed Snow / Bonechill will make the cold damage even stronger? Lets take by exemple a simulacrum... what heppens when on wave 25+ the mobs come with +80% cold resist... it will take ages to finish that one. Other situation.. on Expedition, if you by mistake set all monsters immune to cold, the logbook is dead if you are pure cold... But lets add some numbers: Icestorm + AS + Awk CP = 40% more dmg + 43%Pen Icestorm + 16% + CtF + Trinity = 16% more dmg + 31% more dmg + 30% more dmg + 17 Pen. Total 77% more damage + 17% penetration Its 40% more damage + 43% penetration VS 77% more damage + 17% penetration And you still need to reech 129 dex to use Awakened Cold Pen and sometimes it is a pain! I played this Cold To Fire variant for 2 leagues and i can say... feels much better. Once you have setup the resists correctly to use The wise Oak + Vessel of Vinktar, the map clear is a breeze, even on Full delirium juiced maps! Once you Shock / Freeze / Ignite all the time the enemies, the Divergent Elemental Proliferation greatly increases the damage dealt. Other detail, link Arcane Surge on Vortex + Awakened Unbound Ailments + Bonechill, you increase the damage of the vortex, aswell increasing the chill applyed up to 30%(that is the max) even on some bosses aswell incerasing the Icestorm damage by chill effect! The only donwside for this setup in my point of view, is the fact that you lose Enfeeble, to use Flamabillity. Not that is a problem, but with lowend gear, it could be. You should try it, to feel how it goes :D As I said, I made all challenges by myself, all ubers, feared, full deli maps... so the setup works. And if you look at my itens, they are not that expensive I crafted everything by myself... whiterockxx#6367 님이 2022. 7. 15. 오후 4:53:12에 마지막으로 편집
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" Ok, so benefit is, that damage is not all cold that helps in cases where mobs get extra cold resist. But I still don't understand what Trinity does. "Icestorm + 16% + CtF + Trinity = 16% more dmg + 31% more dmg + 30% more dmg + 17 Pen. Total 77% more damage + 17% penetration" 16% from getting Arcane Surge from elsewhere. 31% from CtF Cold Damage as Extra FIre Damage. Few increased damage mods that don't really matter. Where does the 30% more damage and 17% penetration come? Its looks like those are the bonuses you get from Trinity. 3%*10 from having 50 Resonance and 17% penetration from 25+ Resonance. But the way Trinity is worded it should not give those buffs at all. Since Fire damage is the highest damage, Trinity gives Cold and Lightning Resonance but no Fire Resonance at all. 3% more damage per LOWEST Resonance, and since Fire Resonance is 0 all the time, that is 0% more damage. 17% penetration while EACH Resonance is AT LEAST 25. But once again, Fire Resonance is 0, so no Penetration here. | |
" This a point that lots of players dont get about Trinity. To have all 3 ressonances you just need 2 elements well balanced. In my case, most of my Flat damage is Fire but 1x blanketed snow passive + bonechill increased cold damage taken by chill effect, is enought to make cold damage hit almost same amount then i have 50 for all 3 ressonances all the time! Making trinity gives full effect all the time! Since all 3 resonances are at 50, the lowest is 50... so 30% more damage + 17% Elemental Penetration! Follow an old video from 3.17 doing maven, take a look at trinity buff. On 3.17 was my first time trying Cold to fire + Trinity. Now on 3.18 i'm much stronger, and made some improvements on damage and tankness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH_SvZTthd8 If you pay attention the damage was enought to skip the second memory game xD Seems weird... but works very well whiterockxx#6367 님이 2022. 7. 16. 오전 12:58:51에 마지막으로 편집
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sorry, duplicated post :(
whiterockxx#6367 님이 2022. 7. 16. 오전 12:47:20에 마지막으로 편집
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" Ok, so this is probably why it works. Damage ranges. Cold damage (per hit) is 22201 to 31081 and fire damage is 35974 to 50398. Trinity probably counts the Cold damage before CtF conversion, so to Trinity Cold hits 44k-62k and Fire hits 36k-50k. Sometimes it is more Cold than Fire and sometimes more Fire than Cold, and with getting so many shards/s, it is very likely to get it both ways. PoB however only counts the average damage, so it doesn't count you getting the buff. |
